For Kathryn Van Sickle, a major gifts officer at Columbia University, development is not just a profession; it’s a way of life. In her first year traveling the country as a frontline fundraiser, she started posting pictures from the homes and skyscrapers she visited on social media with the hashtag #devlife. In 2019 she launched a podcast, the Development Debrief, to home in on what keeps fundraisers, donors, and consultants engaged in philanthropy. She wants to find out what #devlife means to them — from its rewards to its challenges.
The podcast’s fourth season launched in July. Van Sickle spoke with the Chronicle about what hosting the podcast has taught her about career development, interviewing donors, and staying grounded during a chaotic year. The interview has been edited for brevity and clarity.
Your father was a fundraiser in higher education so you grew up around the profession. Tell me about your background and how you chose to enter fundraising yourself.
I have some really early memories of being in and around alumni events and thinking they were so fun. I used to beg my dad to let me do the name tags because I just loved to greet people. People are always so excited because they’re going back to a place that they love. I worked for my college’s alumni office as a student, and when I graduated from Trinity College in May of 2012, I decided development could be a good first job. I applied to a bunch of jobs in Boston and New York and really had a hard time; I couldn’t get a job. I had a good six months of unemployed angst. Then Trinity called me and was like, “What do you think about being an employee full-time?” I thought, OK, let’s give it a shot.
Working at your alma mater is almost always a good idea because you have the built-in knowledge of the product, of the place, of your own experiences. You’re learning the job, not also the place. I was able to be a frontline fundraiser from day one because it was my alma mater. I know that never would have happened if I had gone to a big university or a place I didn’t know.
Why did you decide to start a podcast?
It was this blend of events. I used the tuition-remission benefit at Columbia University to do a master’s in strategic communications at night. I graduated in May of 2019 and thought, how can I apply my skills from grad school to my work? That summer, my boss took my colleagues and I out to lunch. She asked, “If development disappeared, what else would you do?” I said I would want to be an interviewer, and she said, “Why don’t you start a podcast?” That September I went to a conference. I’m almost sure I was the youngest person there. There were all these things I wanted to say. I thought, What if I took the strategic communications stuff, applied it to a podcast, and then shared my network with people? How cool would that be?
We’re used to representing our institutions, but the podcast represents me. It’s a very different dynamic.
How did the pandemic affect the mission of your podcast?
A year ago, the podcast was all I did outside of work. It was the perfect thing for me to focus on during that year because I felt like I was able to give back. It was a huge help to me to meet people, to engage, to feel less isolated, to be thinking about what other people needed.
I live in New York City, and I moved in with my parents for the first three months of the pandemic. I’d be sitting every night at dinner, and my dad would say, “What do you need help with? What are you doing?” I’d tell him what we were doing. We were basically having brainstorming sessions every night at dinner, and then I’d go down to my room and edit for three hours. So many people have written to me that it helped them through the past year.
When we went remote, I realized we need to talk about what our teams were doing. I had my boss on to talk about what Columbia was doing. I did a short episode on virtual donor visits. I wanted to figure out the best practices so that I could share them. I said to act as much like you’re in-person as you can. I always start with, “Where are you today?” Once you’ve done the personal stuff, you move in some ways to business as usual, but it’s very transparent: “Last time we met, we were talking about a commitment. Are you still open to do so? If not, tell me as much as you’re comfortable sharing with your circumstances.”
When George Floyd was killed, I was like, this podcast has to respond. I know there’s racism in fundraising. I know that it’s a problem that there aren’t very many Black development officers. That was really scary, but I just called some Black people that I knew in the industry and asked them if they were willing to talk and they said yes.
Has hosting the podcast affected how you do your work as a fundraiser?
It has definitely given me a lot of inspiration to keep going. I’m not alone. There’s a whole community out there of people who are trying to figure out how to do this differently. And I have definitely used tips that people have put forward. I’m better just with managing my time with thinking about new ways to approach problems.
There’s that same excited feeling in hosting a podcast as there is before a donor interview. How is it going to go? Are we going to jive? Are there going to be lots of awkward pauses? The skill is asking questions and not just accepting the first answer. Asking, “Tell me more about that. You mentioned this; tell me more about that.” I think a lot of fundraisers are afraid to say, “You mentioned that your company went public. Can you tell me what that meant for you? What were the financial implications?”
In addition to fundraisers and other leaders in philanthropy, you also interview donors. Why was it important to include donors as guests on your podcast?
If I just interview fundraisers, then that’s not inclusive to alumni relations, donor relations, all of the other pieces of the industry. I really want to hear from donors, and we very rarely hear from them. We all know donors want to be talked to as human beings, as peers. They want to be respected. But there’s no power dynamic between me and a donor I interview on the podcast, who’s never going to give to Columbia. There’s nothing I’m asking of them. It’s a very pure experience.
I think donors want us to get better. They want to share what works and what doesn’t work. They want to help. It’s still so hard for fundraisers — myself included — to figure out how to give donors what they want, even when they’re straight out saying, “This is what I want.”
What was it like to interview your dad on the podcast?
It was awkward. We talk very informally all the time about our work, but when I was interviewing him with his professional hat on, I wasn’t sure how to talk to him. But it was really fun, and I’m grateful that 20 years from now we’re going to have that interview. He’s opened a lot of doors for me. He has people that he really respects and is like, “I want to hear what they have to say. Will you interview them?” I’m doing 90 percent of the work, but I’m sure that his ideas make me better.
Can you share some nuggets of wisdom that you’ve learned from the guests on your podcast?
A huge thing that has stuck out for me is that these giants, these people that everyone looks up to and respects, overcame major challenges and insecurities. It’s so interesting to think about the process of making a career. I ask people a lot about pivotal moments in their career, and there are always risks. I love it when people say, “And I never looked back.”
What are some challenges you’ve faced as a fundraiser?
When I am doing everything I can to work my portfolio — I’m traveling, I’m meeting with people — and nothing is coming through, I can get really down. Everyone has that inner mean girl voice, like, “You just got lucky and that’s how you closed that gift. You don’t actually have it.” Inevitably, within a week or two weeks, something breaks, and a gift closes, or someone calls me, and I’m like, “OK, I got it.” We’re all on a mental roller coaster because fundraising is such a long game and it’s so numbers-driven. There are high highs and low lows, and that’s always been hard. Interestingly, it’s actually been a little bit easier this year. Because the work is not tethered to travel, I’m having prospect visits almost every day so I don’t feel the same level of feast or famine.
Can you talk about why you wanted the podcast to have a pathway to create networking opportunities?
I did an episode with Dennis Barden, a consultant who recruits higher education executives. He said when things reopen, the demand for fundraisers will increase because everyone is going to be looking for fresh talent. Fundraisers are going to be in the driver’s seat because there aren’t enough good people to fill all the openings. A listener shared that episode with her boss and said, “You know me. I’m a known entity. You know what I have to offer. I want a promotion and a raise.” Her boss listened to the episode and granted her the promotion and the raise. She told me that, and I was like, “That’s amazing!”
Our industry is just so generous. I know of a lot of examples of listeners who have reached out cold to guests and said, “I loved what you said. Can we talk one-on-one? Can I ask you more questions?” And the guests are saying yes. Listeners should know each other. There’s a huge hunger for networking because we are all isolated.
As you’re planning out season four, what kind of topics are you thinking about?
Fundraising is going to continue to be just as tumultuous as it was this past year. It might be harder because return-to-work procedures are very charged. It’s going to be challenging for leaders to decide how much of a hard line they want to put down or not. If fundraisers want to work remote full-time, it’s going to be hard for them to grapple with whether they want it so badly that they leave their institution. We proved that we could do our jobs remotely. I had a great year, but I don’t think I was doing my best work.
There’s going to be a mass exodus of fundraisers this summer and this fall. Think about all the people who in February of 2020 were ready for a promotion and have been sitting in a frozen institution. They’re going to leave if they’re not promoted. On top of that, what’s going to happen with all the discovery work we did this year when we go to meet these people for the first time? Everything was shaken up, and now as it settles, we’re going to be seeing some little tornadoes in there.
